Race Stat Changes

[Terron]

proposal 19 looks great.

-like that "almost perfection" aspect on elf and the extra point xppppx with available +1 is nice.
-gnome casters gets the boost without such a severe drawback to melee
-goblin "fits" alot better without really changing
-Power melee races toned back a bit aswell

the price for perfection is 25+ pages of PoV. lol

with most players choosing 0 chr most often a dwarf will likely always be 21 19 22 10 20 10, whereas a half orc will always be 24 19 22 10 10 12 with that setup. i dunno guess in my head its just a bit weird seeing half orc with the option for more HPs than dwarf.
(yes both setups i didnt use the +1 so both had 5 points left)

[anthriel]

Proposal 19 looks the best of recent ones imho. Sure there's a lot of unknowns here that may not play out as well as ppl hope in practice (eg the new +1 dodge Agi on Ling, the 50% fizzle reduction in elf etc) but at least on paper it seems that every race maintains its distinctiveness to some degree. There's prolly still questions to be answered and tweaked in another round later (eg Horc Str, gnome survivability, relevance of magic system etc), but on the brief glance I took, I think it's probably a good first attempt change to implement and evaluate. Shrugs.

[Lateralus]

Yea i think 19 looks good covers quite a bit that needs to be addressed for sure.

Only thing I was wondering about is why hp got boosted up 20 on all races. Why 970-1220 instead of 950-1200? of course not a deal breaker just wondering why it got bumped when its already kinda hard to take down people in pvp.


Otherwise sign me up looks good addresses most of the problems along with the agi change.

[daedroth]

Aye 19, looks good, still prefer the 950 - 1200 HP myself as well. It looks like the only races that will need a re-stat would be gnome, elf and dro... eh.. dark elf aye?
Either way, lets get this done for the love of God.

[Styx]

With magic resis changes let everyone be able to change?

[Styx]

If no one is in objection can we get this over and done with plz?

[Eld]

Dwarves seem to be getting the raw end of things compared to orc, losing 1 end and still having a 3 str gap sucks.

50% less fizzles on elves seems massive.

Does this actually fix any of the balance issues we have?
We need testing not changes made on gut feeling and anecdotal evidence

[JadeFalcon]

I completely agree with Eld.
No offence, but this thread is a mess.
We have 19 proposals (!!), with no clarity on what distinguishes them.
We have all sort of different proposals, which are far from consensual.
We have inputs from some players, but not all.

I think before we change anything, we take a step back and let at least nitehawk thing this on his own.

[Folder]

??????????????

Your post lost me JF. We have 19 proposals because we have been talking things out, that's not a bad thing. You will never get 1 proposal that has 100% approval rate, even ignoring the fact that a large percentage of players does not contribute to forum threads. I don't think we want a game where "NH does his own thing" while us players sit back and wait for it.

Dwarves are not meant to compete with orcs STR wise. Dwarves have MR (eld I know you bitch about this but your dwarf is an assy and they have -MR). The math is there, dwarf MR is good. Dwarves have high endurance, armor, magic dmg redux. They are meant to be the race that takes more damage.

To get 3 more STR you sacrifice MR. That seems fair to me especially considering long term we will have more magic classes. You feel it as a 10 wis character going against magic, but people right now don't play casters very much (imo, digressing here but it's because they have no burst damage and buffing/debuffing is dogshit because of UI issues).

What simulations are you wanting here? Chanter vs dwarf and chanter vs orc? Orc melee vs dwarf melee? I think if we want to see some simulations you need to ask for specifics. 12 races and 12 classes = a shitload of possibilities.

[Terron]

Dwarves seem to be getting the raw end of things compared to orc, losing 1 end and still having a 3 str gap sucks.

50% less fizzles on elves seems massive.

Does this actually fix any of the balance issues we have?
We need testing not changes made on gut feeling and anecdotal evidence

-3 str for +1 wisdom(as they didnt lose allocation) an extra 2 ac and an overall best defense vs magic in the entire game. in comparison to the rest of the races dwarf loses nothing but 1 agility for the greatest defense ingame.

however i do agree that horc might aswell receive the -1 end aswell. from the horc thread i think the general idea was to keep this race the same until agi changes go through. not giving them the -1 alongside the other melee races is an actual boost in percentile hps in comparison.

you fizzle about 1 time every 4 rounds, this would make an elf fizzle 1x in 8 rounds, i think this is a way to increase elf damage very slightly w/o having to increase the races int stat. also adds a reason to use elf cleric over helf which at current is pointless.