Ember Online

I want to bring this up again and see what the final verdict is on what people want with them. Right now they are good game changers in PVP because of their high alpha damage that works well with any other class that can finish off a target. They aren't so great in OADs because they tend to drag alot if you don't autosneak, if you do autosneak, you risk being exhausted. Leveling as a group is also tougher because you obviously can be left behind and also you might miss the kill shot, which I doubt happens often, but I'm sure it does from time to time. Obviously they are pretty strong in PVP groups and are great hunters, high alpha is really nice and is one of the only classes that can break a stand-still.

Auto-Backstabbing won't be a thing as adding a completely new mechanic with a timer is not something I want to do. I.E. you type /backstab user, and it will backstab someone in 1 second automatically. You'd then need a new hide mechanic for it, etc etc. Overall I think it's a bit too much too do and timers are the spawn of the lag devil.

Obviously not having some sort of delay would make slayers too OP. Alot of people would die to two instant backstabs. It wouldn't be fair either compared to other classes as they are literally getting and extra 50% for nothing then. But people didn't like their mechanic changing this much, as damage would have to lower too, also not a good option. They are what they are because of their high alpha.


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So I propose a system similar to the first option, but not as auto. For example, when you /hide, you can backstab after X seconds. X can be 0.5, 1.0, etc (It could be a set time, it could be a time based on INT, etc). Then when you attack, you backstab. You do NOT need to leave the room during this at all anymore. If you try to attack to first while you are hidden, it will simply say 'You must wait 1.0 seconds before attacking while hidden!' Type deal. There would obviously have to be a /unhide command that will be handy rather then just 'talking' to unhide yourself, though that would be okay too.

The only issue comes to when you are searched out if this is a system we use. What is the penalty for being searched out? I would want to remove having to move completely. Maybe you cannot hide for a second after found, giving attackers time to smack you? There doesn't need to be a penalty but I would think it is a good idea.

So what is the verdict? WE DOIN THIS BOYS N GIRLS? This would make assassins

EDIT: The delay could be after the attack, not after /hide. So /hide /attack (delay here) /hide /attack.

If you say YES, please write what a fair time would be for the following:
1. When you /hide, when can you backstab? One second? 0.5 a second? I would think the general person takes a second to go back and forth,then hide, then backstab, PLUS LAG. (about 0.25s per action.) We again, could also base it off INT, maybe 10 int = 1 second, 23 int = 0.5 seconds. and scale in between. Please comment if it should be stat based too.
2. Impose a 'found' by /searching penalty? I say yes to this, and if you are /searched out, you cannot /hide for a second.


Poll for 3 days.

P.S. I am not interested in a crazy or all out different mechanic at this time.

i voted yes, as a new player to Ember I have noticed players in a similar position to me who have levelled their fist character being a slayer.
they find themselves pretty redundant in the oads that my clan runs due to dragging etc
I would say you 1.25 seconds is a fair amount of time

Delay based on INT/stats means that a)existing slayers and thieves will suffer, even with reallocate. I think that is somethign that should be avoided at all times, unless you make it a free RACE respec (i.e. saurian can switch to gnome or whatever).

There DOES need to be a delay and I think something like 2 seconds between backstabs is the way forward. Otherwise priests will be useless as 2-32 slayers could destroy any party in no time.

I think a good solution would be to to try it with 2 seconds at first and after a week or 2, make another poll to see if BS time should be lowered to 1s.

One other thing, a part of slayers in PVP is the high burst damage, which you want to coordinate by BSing at the same time. if there is too much delay, a single priest/chanter could /search and find all slayers hidden, basically using 1 stamina to defang all the slayers. So to avoid that issue, perhaps searching should be less effective.

I voted yes and love the idea of removing the moving restriction but I might propose we put the delay to the time in between /hides rather than the delay between a hide and an attack which I'd be concerned would hurt the class in PVP and PVE a lot.

It gives a serious advantage to any class with >10 int versus hiding classes now and also means random mobs will find you hiding a lot lot more now which would be very annoying.

If you make the delay between two /hides the balance/delay between hides and attacks is the same as its always been (how quickly the player hides and attacks) and you can still balance this just the same as the proposed option with .25-.4 delay or so (whatever people decide is a fair number).

I say we start with .4 and see how people like it. People are discussing numbers in actual seconds but the time it takes a quick player to move rooms back and forth (or once for a fake room) and get ready to press their other macro or click or whatever is extremely short like way under 1 second. If you make the delay >1 second I think you'll see some backlash from Slayers since it would be a nerf

Yeah that might be a better option as tucker said, delay after a backstab would probably be okay, however, it means you cannot REHIDE then for a second or so.


I disagree about your 0.4 statement though for the most. The server alone can generate up to 0.1-0.2 seconds delay too depending on the amount of people on (The server actually slows down to prevent people lagging the server.) which has always been a thing. I don't think many people are doing 4 actions in 0.4 seconds, even with macros. I'll time it to test on some players and see what the average is, but I presume its more around 0.8 to 1.2 with moving, hiding, and then the backstab.

Cyrus wrote:Delay based on INT/stats means that a)existing slayers and thieves will suffer, even with reallocate. I think that is somethign that should be avoided at all times, unless you make it a free RACE respec (i.e. saurian can switch to gnome or whatever).

So your saying that there would be use in other races then? Yeah we shouldn't do that then. /insertjokehere. Though I don't mind if its a set value, just a shame not to take advantage of it. Welcome to the life of balancing though.

Actually NH, what I said was if you make such a change that affects int for example, all saurian / orc slayers would become more or less useless. Being able to CHANGE race (optionally) would avoid people having spent days or weeks lvling a char that has then become more or less useless.

Voted for change,

I kinda like the idea of INT making a difference in re-hide time. <20 STR slayers are currently, well, trash and maybe this could be an incentive to help make them a little more viable.

Yes to a /search penalty. In practice this only will be happening to slayers "double" hiding, but I think that's fine.

I think we should try a change and reevaluate afterwards to see if everyone's happy or if they wanna tweak it further or revert back.

I think the delay should come between hiding and then stabbing so people have a chance to /search

I think there should be testing done to measure what the actual time is now and replicate that time (I'd imagine it's 0.5 seconds)

The /search penalty could potentially be they become exhaust or lose an extra turn if they're found.


I don't like the idea of there being a difference in hiding time between characters with different intelligence unless it's extremely small. It feels a bit late in the game to introduce this now unless you offer free race changes.

I vote no.
Assassins are supposed to be that, killers on 1vs1. They dont need to be good in PVE.
I think this might be an implicit nerf, since high Int chars will totally find the Slayers and break BS.
Also, i can easily drop 2 BS in 1,1.5 seconds, so...