Cavs, Brigs, Slayers in PvE

[Folder]

The Refinery got me thinking a bit about these classes and OAD design in general.

Some facts:
-Taunting on a Cav at a hard hitting boss is dangerous right now. It's downright scary at times and entirely unviable if you don't have a 6man group to help absorb some hits.
-Brigs are terrible damage and the drop rate bonus is not worth bringing them.
-Slayers are terrible damage because of trap squares and locked rooms.
-The game and playerbase is too small to design areas that exclude classes by design. I currently have to tell some guildies "I'm sorry but we can't take you on this oad because your class does not do enough damage to make it viable".

Proposals!
Cavs:
-Increase taunt damage reduction for PvE. I'm not entirely sure on the scaling of it right now but I think about a 50% bump is in order to make them feel tanky and to stop taunt from feeling like it may be a bad choice. This likely needs to be a PvE change only because the taunt DR in PvP could make cavs OP.

Brigs:
-Increase drop rate bonus. It's currently at 30%, but 30% of 10% is 3%...largely useless. Not sure how you want this formula to work because it only needs to make a difference on boss drops, but imo a flat bonus of 10-20% (as in if the drop rate of an item is 10% it should be 20-30% with a thief).
-Give thieves an "expose weakness" skill. Increases damage taken by target by 10-15% (tweak this # as needed). Duration around 1 minute. This allows thieves to be useful to the group outside of the drop rate bonus while not overly buffing their own damage.

Slayers:
-Give them a skill that buffs their damage and prevents hiding. I haven't worked out the lore/rp part of this yet but I'm thinking some sort of empower spell that increases their attack damage to, say, around what a bard does but that prevents the slayer from hiding so they can't do mega backstabs. They need something to help them do damage when they are unable to move because of trap squares or boss rooms. As a bonus this can help slayers 1v1 when FF is involved.


Thoughts?

[Mujahideen]

I'm not sure if this was ever suggested before, but how about allowing alts?

[Styx]

After the changes for Thief drop rate I took mine and not a single green or higher drop for 3 hours.

The change was upped and shall be left alone I think it all went to that kinda point.

But using a Thief to force increases in drops in oad is just pure risk and luck

In the end I put away mine.

[Styx]

I'm not sure if this was ever suggested before, but how about allowing alts?

It's been suggested. And is not allowed

[Folder]

After the changes for Thief drop rate I took mine and not a single green or higher drop for 3 hours.

The change was upped and shall be left alone I think it all went to that kinda point.

But using a Thief to force increases in drops in oad is just pure risk and luck

In the end I put away mine.

Right, this is exactly the problem. The bonus does not make them worth the damage hit taken by bringing them, and they offer no other utility.

[Terron]

thief drop bonus is immensely powerful, just not for oads. that is currently mind you. once oads have a perfect party line up a thief will increase drops and be awesome. thieves tend to do less damage but that should be offset with an archery ability/skill. bringing up damage like 1.25x or an extra stam with bow equipped. and/or a ultimate dodge rate bonus for the class. thieves are always in trouble and very used to running avoiding they shouldnt dodge like turtles. 12.5% dodge bonus plz.


cavs could use some adjustment, the relative damage on oads is so high you wouldnt even want to risk a double hit unless youre a dwarf. guardian kinda falls here aswell.

slayers/barbs are the glass cannons of ember imo if a slayer cant backstab just delete it. and barbs...mega damage mega damage taken. fair trade off? no not really. i think they suck because its just more stress on priests every barb in party. party with 3 summoners? sure take a barb. party of 6 no summons...yep go monk.

[Folder]

re: thieves. Yeah. I made a tiny mention of it but if there's any way to code it so the drop bonus is increased on red/purple bosses that would be very helpful and give people a reason to take them. Still their damage is awful even with BS/Ambush so I think a group damage buff is a decent compromise instead of just buffing their own damage.

re: slayers. Yes if they can't backstab they are garbage. That's the whole point of my suggestion, to give them an alternative when they are not allowed to move. They wouldn't ever use this in a situation where they can backstab.

[Mujahideen]

Slayers have autosneak and /hide so I think it's a fair trade off.

Just bring a sword if you can't bs.

[Eld]

I like the idea for the thief party damage buff, could potentially go a different route and reduce the mob's attack rate or power instead depending on how you wanted to go with it.

Maybe the command could be /distract mob, and some nonsense about the thief using their agility to distract the mob.



Any change you make so slayers can be good without backstabbing would also probably make it nicer for them to be levelled.
I know they were always horrible to level because of the 10192803482302832 backstabs needed.

Maybe this could play into the dual wield vs carry a shield conundrum they currently have somehow?

Maybe it would be a damage buff vs 1 mob similar to wither for necros, but only applicable to the slayer/assy, and wouldnt affect backstabs... however i cant think of any way to make this make sense in the lore

i was thinking /target mob similar to Folder's suggestion, but with a different outcome

*You begin targetting mob's weakness

maybe /ruse, maybe something with /stalk, maybe /precision for /precision strike

/ruse mob *You set a ruse for the mob and catch it offguard
but that sounds shit and too similar to backstab

maybe /confuse mob
*You confuse mob by running in and out of the shadows making it vulnerable to your attacks


Alternative idea, maybe bring back "flash pots", make them so slayers can use them on one square to be able to hide again without moving... that would make them OP though, you could potentially use 4 in a round and backstab 4 times in a round...
There might be some way to get this to work



Alternative idea, give slayers/assies a random 1/5 chance of a *regular* attack being a special attack for x2 damage
i.e. *You catch mob off guard with a precision strike*

[Reaper]

What is Slayer damage with a sword? The solution may already be in the game. I will test it when I get home if no one else does.