Backstabbing/Assassins n' Thieves

[JadeFalcon]

Adding to what Miach wrote (since my main is also a slayer) - I think the original issue is that Slayers are hard to lvl and useless at certain OADs. But I am not complaining - Slayers are strong and good at PVP, they can't have it all.

Sure, new players might complain that they didnt knew this - i think this is fair, but then the issue isnt with any slayer mechanics. The issue is lack of information in the new char screen.

Edit: To vent off a bit, my feeling with this suggestion is "sadness". For better or worse, slayers (along with priests) are, i believe, a class that demands actual skill and attention to what you are doing. This will reduce the skill requirement to... just pressing one more button.

[Tucker]

JF and Miach, how is moving between attacks skill or a challenge? Do you guys honestly think that there is any strategy? You move to a new square and you move back. You do that between every BS. Literally the two differences between this proposed and current system is that one to two movement commands (one with a fake square), and the delay difference between the movements and the set delay. Like, I agree that if you set the delay to match the quicker players you're raising the floor on the class which helps a lot of less efficient players - and I get why you wouldn't like that.

If this was being proposed as a mechanic for a new class would you guys really be in support of it? Is this just nostalgia and already having leveled Slayers talking? The thing that annoys me on this issue is that I feel if this poll was being discussed as a mechanic for a brand new class the vote would be unanimous against using it since it offers no depth of gameplay and would be frustrating as hell.

Lastly if this was added as an option but not required (i.e. you could do both, you could still move out and in for quicker BS's than the timer would allow) would you support adding it or not? I posted a little recording on discord of me demonstrating two BS's in .95 seconds and that the movement out and in is like .17 seconds which are on the quick end of things if I can do it any idiot can since I'm not a "L33T Skilled Slayer Main" like you two

[JadeFalcon]

JF and Miach, how is moving between attacks skill or a challenge? Do you guys honestly think that there is any strategy? You move to a new square and you move back. You do that between every BS. Literally the two differences between this proposed and current system is that one to two movement commands (one with a fake square), and the delay difference between the movements and the set delay. Like, I agree that if you set the delay to match the quicker players you're raising the floor on the class which helps a lot of less efficient players - and I get why you wouldn't like that.

Your first sentence betrays the point of your second sentence - indeed there are players that are less efficient (slower) in backstabs. If I am faster, why should i be punished for that? Yes, I wouldnt like that a guy that just leveled is first slayer is as good as i am.

If this was being proposed as a mechanic for a new class would you guys really be in support of it? Is this just nostalgia and already having leveled Slayers talking? The thing that annoys me on this issue is that I feel if this poll was being discussed as a mechanic for a brand new class the vote would be unanimous against using it since it offers no depth of gameplay and would be frustrating as hell.

We are not talking about a new class. We are talking about something that exists now, and that is tried and tested.

Lastly if this was added as an option but not required (i.e. you could do both, you could still move out and in for quicker BS's than the timer would allow) would you support adding it or not? I posted a little recording on discord of me demonstrating two BS's in .95 seconds and that the movement out and in is like .17 seconds which are on the quick end of things if I can do it any idiot can since I'm not a "L33T Skilled Slayer Main" like you two

I've already wrote that i am fine about having both.

[Mustang]

I am for and against depending on the option you go for.

I like the idea of a delay between attacks but not between hide and bs. At the moment your hit twice before you know it anyway (by any decent person playing slayer). The int idea as cyrus said if you run with that it will shut down the infamous HO imo so if thats done a change of race option would be nice.

I voted yes because i like change but i really hope you dont change it to a delay after hide. Especially when monsters already find you fairly quick as an HO or Saurian.

[Reaper]

Please, no....Slayers have been fine since RoK and they are fine now. They are iconic for a reason. Let's not give an easy slayer mode. I know it's not "hard" now, but it does take some skill and practice to track, time autosneak so it doesn't exh, and double backstab someone before they can run.

[daedroth]

Please, no....Slayers have been fine since RoK and they are fine now. They are iconic for a reason. Let's not give an easy slayer mode. I know it's not "hard" now, but it does take some skill and practice to track, time autosneak so it doesn't exh, and double backstab someone before they can run.

I think its ok to introduce the alternative backstab mechanic (while keeping the old way), as long as the new mechanic is slower than the quick slayers using the old method.
That way the quick slayers will still have the edge over those who use the auto method.
It is also helpful for the veteran slayers to use in situations where they can't move, or their lagged out, or their drinking tea.
Now I will be able to level my assy or fight pvp while drinking a nice cup of cha.

[NiteHawk]

Well regardless, I am doing this at this point. This isn't ROK and things are going to get changed for the better of getting new players.

Again /hiding in the same square will be SLOWER than moving back and forth, unless you are pretty terrible, but I don't see an issue. You can be a 'ok' slayer by using the new system, or you can be a efficient/good slayer by using the old system and moving yourself.

OADs and usefulness is part of it but my main concern is leveling in a group, not losing XP because you are moving back and forth, dragging tons of monsters back to the party by accident... Then there's latency lag. When you're in the US it is NP, but in the EU you are expected to have 150ms, though you can try to cope with it, it can be tough when your in a room with wall o text or many people being around. I also don't like making loopback rooms, shit makes the world ugly to me for no reason and we keep having to add it because people get uppity about it.

Truthfully it will also help the server out a bit too, moving back and forth and getting all the data in the room each time is more taxing then being able to stay in the room.

I've heard so many people say 'Why are you doing a assassin as your first character, thats dumb'. Mainly because they are tedious to level, but people have left over it too. It's a very blah statement to make and if people don't understand that all classes should be useful as a first character than tough. Saying a class or character should only be good at PVP too is also odd. I want characters to be useful on both fronts, both PVE and PVP. There is no reason they cannot be.

[Castle]

I am going to agree with JF. I play a slayer as a main. I hate the fact that you have to move back and forth for backstabbing and rehiding but I feel this is how slayers/assassins should be for now. I have won a lot of world pvp fights over other slayers by being able to backstab faster and hide quicker. People that don't play slayers on the regular/main or as much as I do wont realize this and would generally say it takes no skill.

A few things a slayer/assassin has to think about:

1. Autosneak exhausted on the square where you cant do anything but watch yourself get pummeled by your competition/mob
2. Figure out where the open squares are so you can leave and enter safely and to avoid trap squares.
3. Hiding on the correct square sounds easy but sometimes you can find yourself hiding on the wrong square and losing a stamina point.
4. Trying to stay away from those druid ff's. If this timer comes into play, good luck with trying to avoid those ff's. An ff'ed slayer is a dead slayer.
5. Backstabbing speed. You need to do this fast so you can jump back into the rotation of movement and hide.

Adding a timer on /backstab or /hide or both is a nerf.

[NiteHawk]

Again you can do both. I'm not removing the old mechanic.

[JadeFalcon]

Two weeks into this, right?
Im sold. Still use old mechanics to PK, but new mechanics for OADs, so i think its working as intended.