So the agility works fine, but the level doesn' effect it enough. This means that you can virtually bash a level 25 and hit it rather ok with a level 15 alt. It's a bit goofy.
I'm working on changing this, but could use ideas on what the values should be. Right now the values are the same for monsters and players, but maybe it will have to be split. I really don't want to do this, but I feel i might have too in order to keep the hit rates higher on monsters.
I'd like to know everyones say, even if you aren't an expert. Eyeball it and decide. Each answer should have a percentage amount, or percentages.
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Dodge formula - Need some says.
Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
Dodge rate is so tricky. When RoK had changes to agi scaling and backstab hitrates, the entire game felt so different.
I actually think that character level not impacting it is fine and a benefit. It sucks for new players to feel completely helpless versus max level characters.In fact, a large number of games scrap leveling systems entirely for this reason. Higher level characters already have the advantages of more skills/spells, more stamina, and better equipment, so I think compounding it with differing hit/dodge rates is a bit too far. I think a smartly played lvll15 could be able to kill a lvl25 if played right. I know this lessens the feeling of player progression feeling meaningful to some, but it helps a lot for new players who are looking to have some fun fighting before they hit max level.
As for balancing it with monsters, I liked monster dodge/hit rates settings we had for RoK even though it was implemented awkwardly. Not sure how it'd work being separate from players?
I actually think that character level not impacting it is fine and a benefit. It sucks for new players to feel completely helpless versus max level characters.In fact, a large number of games scrap leveling systems entirely for this reason. Higher level characters already have the advantages of more skills/spells, more stamina, and better equipment, so I think compounding it with differing hit/dodge rates is a bit too far. I think a smartly played lvll15 could be able to kill a lvl25 if played right. I know this lessens the feeling of player progression feeling meaningful to some, but it helps a lot for new players who are looking to have some fun fighting before they hit max level.
As for balancing it with monsters, I liked monster dodge/hit rates settings we had for RoK even though it was implemented awkwardly. Not sure how it'd work being separate from players?
Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
Aieron wrote:Dodge rate is so tricky. When RoK had changes to agi scaling and backstab hitrates, the entire game felt so different.
I actually think that character level not impacting it is fine and a benefit. It sucks for new players to feel completely helpless versus max level characters.In fact, a large number of games scrap leveling systems entirely for this reason. Higher level characters already have the advantages of more skills/spells, more stamina, and better equipment, so I think compounding it with differing hit/dodge rates is a bit too far. I think a smartly played lvll15 could be able to kill a lvl25 if played right. I know this lessens the feeling of player progression feeling meaningful to some, but it helps a lot for new players who are looking to have some fun fighting before they hit max level.
As for balancing it with monsters, I liked monster dodge/hit rates settings we had for RoK even though it was implemented awkwardly. Not sure how it'd work being separate from players?
If you were going to get rid of level affecting dodge rate, it could work for monsters too if you balance them out with more HP, and probably attack power and such.
If going to leave it in for monsters, the current system is probably fine in where the level effects it enough to be scaled properly. Just need to balance the mobs a little though.
I'm not sure about completely removing it, or just maybe leaving it as is as right now level doesn't effect it that great (as I said above). It does help a small portion though right now. I.E. I think a level 25 vs a level 20 with same stats is about 10% variance only. level 25 to 15 is about 20%. But I'm mainly on the fence on it.
I would really love some absolute formula that works for both monsters and players though. I hate having to make a separate formula just for balance reasons.
Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
I think dodge should increase when you level. The games that dont have a level system usually have a skill system where you will have parry or dodge which will increase through use. This game does not have that, so level represents this.
Personally id keep the same system for monsters as for players, why complicate things?
Personally id keep the same system for monsters as for players, why complicate things?
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
The scaling of (d)odge with leveling could be incremental, as in +1/+2 every level (I use these numbers loosely, based on a varied parallel system ideology)
e.g. at level 25, you'd have (d%)+25/+50, whereas someone level 5 would have (d%)+5/+10. The numbers may seem high, but the chance on hit is really crucial depending on how (a)gility/(s)trength would be incorporated. Now i'm thinking more on dissection of the system in it's entirety. I suppose you could have mobs be a separate system, with half the dodge of a user.
(a)+(d)(ac) = x% to avoid an attack
(h)+(s) + something else = y% to land an attack
disclaimer: I haven't slept, but here we are failing algebra.
e.g. at level 25, you'd have (d%)+25/+50, whereas someone level 5 would have (d%)+5/+10. The numbers may seem high, but the chance on hit is really crucial depending on how (a)gility/(s)trength would be incorporated. Now i'm thinking more on dissection of the system in it's entirety. I suppose you could have mobs be a separate system, with half the dodge of a user.
(a)+(d)(ac) = x% to avoid an attack
(h)+(s) + something else = y% to land an attack
disclaimer: I haven't slept, but here we are failing algebra.
Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
@Cynic dont fight algebra! it will win everytime 
Disclaimer: Any ideas I come up with may not even meet my approval. I am just posting an idea based on the topic I have just read.
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Re: Dodge formula - Need some says.
Assuming you are going to have a secondary "parry" type category that resolves on hit I'd make it simple.
For Monsters and Players you define minimum and maximum for AGI and LVL. Your base for 2 equal characters is 50%. Each point of agi difference between the two adjust the formula by +5% or -5% for the attacker (decide upon a ceiling). Each level difference should make the adjustment +2% or -2% to a maximum of 20% to provide a ceiling. Using this formula, a lvl 25 ling with 24 agi would have a 95% chance to hit a lvl 9 half orc with 19 agi (no class modifiers). I'm a firm believer in no absolutes and I'd be happy with a hard limit of either 5% or 10% chance of anyone being able to hit or miss at any time. As long as you lay out the limits, give monsters an agi stat, and keep the builders in line this formula should work.
Personally I'd probably change the base chance to start at 40% to hit. You can modify a few characters for live testing of the formula and get some volunteers that don't mind creating temporary characters to be heavily modified. I can see reasons for the agi to have a lesser effect but testing will have to bear that out with a modded character to account for a morphed druid. You may have to adjust the ceilings for each variable after some rigorous testing.
If you use a parry formula in the damage resolution for deflects, partials, absorb, and even reflect; that formula should use different criteria than agi such as armor. Spells, items, and even abilities will change this formula as it will be more malleable.
For Monsters and Players you define minimum and maximum for AGI and LVL. Your base for 2 equal characters is 50%. Each point of agi difference between the two adjust the formula by +5% or -5% for the attacker (decide upon a ceiling). Each level difference should make the adjustment +2% or -2% to a maximum of 20% to provide a ceiling. Using this formula, a lvl 25 ling with 24 agi would have a 95% chance to hit a lvl 9 half orc with 19 agi (no class modifiers). I'm a firm believer in no absolutes and I'd be happy with a hard limit of either 5% or 10% chance of anyone being able to hit or miss at any time. As long as you lay out the limits, give monsters an agi stat, and keep the builders in line this formula should work.
Personally I'd probably change the base chance to start at 40% to hit. You can modify a few characters for live testing of the formula and get some volunteers that don't mind creating temporary characters to be heavily modified. I can see reasons for the agi to have a lesser effect but testing will have to bear that out with a modded character to account for a morphed druid. You may have to adjust the ceilings for each variable after some rigorous testing.
If you use a parry formula in the damage resolution for deflects, partials, absorb, and even reflect; that formula should use different criteria than agi such as armor. Spells, items, and even abilities will change this formula as it will be more malleable.
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