Armor

[NiteHawk]

Passive armor works nicely I feel. It works like so:

Every 4 armor gives you an additional 1% passive damage reduction to any physical damage. (0.25% per point). This means:

100 armor: 25% damage reduction
60 armor: 15% damage reduction
50 armor: 12.5% damage reduction
40 armor: 10% damage reduction

ETC. I think it works OK. I think mobs do not need to have alot of armor either but we'll discuss that after.


The issue I think is active armor, aka active blows (25%/50%/75%/FULL) absorbing/deflecting. First off, shields and armor work in different checks. Shields PER POINT value is higher, so removing your shield hurts you more then removing your helmet. I honestly wonder if we should separate this in the armor area so its shows maybe your total armor, and then deflect armor. But that might get confusing. (not sure what people say about this). Without this change though, there is overall no point to use shields because the gain of damage is better.

You get two rolls:

if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < (Armor-ShieldArmor) * 0.1 then ABSORB IS TRUE

if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < ShieldArmor"0.25 then DEFLECT IS TRUE.

Then means then if you have 100 armor, 18 being shield:
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 8.2% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 4.5% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 12.7%


This seems slightly low. As we drop down to medium armor, which is typically the lowest armor after class bonuses and such at about 60 armor:
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 4.2% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 4.5% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 8.7%


In both terms, losing a shield effects your rolls pretty greatly. I don't think it's enough though per point for armor. I think for medium armor the shield being half of your deflect might be a bit extreme too.

[NiteHawk]

I think we need to bump up medium armor +10 and then scale it accordingly. Most classes gain about 80-90 AC bar medium armor classes. This is because medium armor classes are often where the heavy damage is at.

if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < (Armor-ShieldArmor) * 0.25 then ABSORB IS TRUE
if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < ShieldArmor"0.35 then DEFLECT IS TRUE.

Heavy armor - 100 armor (18 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 20.5% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 7.2% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 27.7%

Medium Armor - 70 armor (18 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 13% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 7.2% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 20.2%

This here might be more better. All other classes should be between 70-100 typically. Obviously shield still matters if you like that second roll. Maybe itäs too much though.

[Folder]

I definitely approve of your proposed change here. Armor feels like shit right now and duels are entirely too fast in nearly all cases imo.

Also I'm glad you have the separate rolls, rok was retarded in its damage calculation.

I don't think deflect/absorb needs to be shown separately in the client, but it should be detailed in the wiki.

[Kruell]

It's late and I have to get up early so my brain isn't fully functioning but there is something about the numbers that is clicking for me. I like the idea and the direction it's going but the formula is catching in my mind. After I get back tomorrow I'll run the numbers on variations and try to figure out what's bothering me.

[NiteHawk]

Let me know what you think then, I'll wait a day or two more before I adjust.

[Kruell]

Okay I'm refreshed. I've run the numbers and can't really find fault. I think when I was doing the math last night I kept coming up with different totals than you had down. The forumlas seem to be okay to check gameplay on but to be honest I'd like to see a slightly higher absorb chance with 100 being near 35%. Raising the axis we would be maxing out in the future with quest items and effects at 50% absorb chance. Cloth wearers can SS themselves to 96 right now and medium armor aren't bad. Bards come out on the short end of this because they don't gain the extra armor or bonus dodge monks get but both are restricted to light armor.

This has given me some ideas. I've been running numbers and experimenting so I'll be making some class specific suggestions soon.

[NiteHawk]

Okay I'm refreshed. I've run the numbers and can't really find fault. I think when I was doing the math last night I kept coming up with different totals than you had down. The forumlas seem to be okay to check gameplay on but to be honest I'd like to see a slightly higher absorb chance with 100 being near 35%. Raising the axis we would be maxing out in the future with quest items and effects at 50% absorb chance. Cloth wearers can SS themselves to 96 right now and medium armor aren't bad. Bards come out on the short end of this because they don't gain the extra armor or bonus dodge monks get but both are restricted to light armor.

This has given me some ideas. I've been running numbers and experimenting so I'll be making some class specific suggestions soon.

I don't mind that. We can start it at 1/3rd for 100 armor I'd say. I'll aim for that on the next change then.

Bards get medium armor and a light helmet. They also have shell and their song spell can give armor as well, stacking it further. I believe its about 90 AC or should be once I'm done with it, about 75 ish with just shell.

I also boosted the shell negation to spell damage to about 19-20% at 20 charisma (not in yet but soon). With a proper OAD instrument as well, you can add an additional 15% if you play the song that deals with this, so overall they can negate 35% spell damage.

[NiteHawk]

Actually max shield right now is 14, but I intend on adding 16 sooner then later. In my changes so far I've also bumped the heavy armor to 97 max right now, and Medium to 67. The others have been bumped a couple too but not much I believe.

Absorb - 0.32
Deflect = 0.5


Heavy armor - 100 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 26.88% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 8% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 34.88%

Medium Armor - 70 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 17.28% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 8% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 25.28%



If you want shields to have more impact then..


Absorb - 0.28
Deflect = 0.7

Heavy armor - 100 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 23.52% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 11.2% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 34.72%

Medium Armor - 70 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 15.12% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 11.2% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 26.32%



Last edit, I think this ones might be a bit too high but maybe it might be correct too. I think if anything the second option works. (0.28/0.7):

Absorb - 0.265
Deflect = 0.8

Heavy armor - 100 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 22.26% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 12.8% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 35.06%

Medium Armor - 70 armor (16 being shield)
Your ABSORB roll has a chance of 14.31% of absorbing.
Your DEFLECT roll has a chance of 12.8% of deflecting.
Your chance of negating damage actively is 27.11%

[Kruell]

The variance is pretty well negligible overall but I do like the idea of making the shield work a little better. It makes the dual wielders or two handers have to consider their sacrifice a bit more. The second option looks like a good place to start.

With so much being changed we will have to go back over the system after testing. There are people who are actively testing and trying different things. Gnome Elders took my by surprise.... Once the system is in place I think we will have a pretty deep group of characters to look for issues.

[NiteHawk]

I thought about it and went for a middle man of the two, 0.275 and 0.75 Which gives it 35.1% with max heavy armor. At the moment it won't be that high but it SHOULD be very close after changes.

Shields would be around 12% loss which is fairly high.

I am also lowering passive negation from 25% to 20% for 100 armor. Just to test that.

---

if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < (Armor-ShieldArmor) * 0.275 then ABSORB IS TRUE

if RandomRollFrom(0, 100) < ShieldArmor * 0.75 then DEFLECT IS TRUE.


50 Armor (no shield) 13.75
(heavy users) 100 armor (17 shield) 22.825+12.75 = 35.575%
(medium users) 70 armor (17 shield) 14.575+12.75 = 27.325%
(monks) 80 armor (no shield) = 22%