Leveling-group healers get the shaft

[Cerebrus]

I like the group heal idea

So if a priest can heal 1 person for 300, it would be split between the group depending on party size

6 - 50hp a piece
5 - 60hp a piece
4 - 75hp a piece
3 - 100hp a piece
2 - 150hp a piece

The priest could just cast the group heal on himself and it would heal everyone. c group heal (priest name)

[Metzger]

Ray is a low level spell correct. They will not get anything better. They are not meant to dish out the DPS and be super hard to kill too.

Anyways, there are changes based on this discussion and the healing discussions (that was in the assassin area goofy enough.)

Aid does -50 less heal (-25 on monsters since its /2). It is around 275 with 22int on max.
Heal does around 112-131 with 16-20 int at max.
Cure does around 76-98 with 16-20 int at max. For bards its around 98-120 with 12-20int (Bards gain a larger bonus so even 12int is 'ok' but not great, and yeah, cure is int based on them.). For druids, add about +5 int that thats your max (so 12-16 int would be 76-98 heals for example.)

SMITE is now a set 5 MP for both classes. Smite damage is also increased a little bit on clerics. I felt it was OK for paladins. It should be more worth it now.

Here's how I'd do it, and why:

Ray is fine to leave as is, you're right. Priests aren't meant to dish out good damage to monsters that aren't unholy.

Cure was fine as it was. Averaging at about 115(at level 25), it makes for an excellent low level, lost cost(mana cost), spell. This gives the priest options for tactics in PVE, as well as, PVP. For example, in a no pot mosh, AID is entirely inefficient; you run out of mana way to fast. So, averaging it at 85 per cast is just a waste of stamina in most cases.

By making heal average at 120, it became the new cure, just at a higher mana cost. I'm alright with it, but I consider it more of a nerf than a mechanic balance.

AID is still too high. You're jumping from 120 average to 275+ average(More than 100%!). 225 is probably good, but maybe lower the mana cost on it to 15, instead of 20. The only place I can see this hurting, would be on a hardcore OAD run, but then again, that just adds to the strategy of completing said OAD. For PVP, it's still overpowered at 275.

Making Smite at 5MP is foolish. In doing that, you've made Priest leveling profitable, and I seriously don't think it should be, since the cleric is a very easy class to level. Upping the damage slightly more than you did, and increasing mana cost to 15MP makes it a balanced leveling tool, as well as, a alternative to just AIDing all day long in the graveyard.

I like the group heal idea

So if a priest can heal 1 person for 300, it would be split between the group depending on party size

6 - 50hp a piece
5 - 60hp a piece
4 - 75hp a piece
3 - 100hp a piece
2 - 150hp a piece

The priest could just cast the group heal on himself and it would heal everyone. c group heal (priest name)

Great example. I don't think its necessary to insert a name though, like in your example. You could just do "c group heal" and it'll cast like you've explained, right? It should be rather expensive to cast though. 25 - 30 mana should do it.

[Folder]

225 seems pretty low, I'd say we test a bit more as is and see how it plays out.

15mp for smite sucks though, I was fine with 10 but 15 would be gobs expensive to level with.

[roxxgui]

I like the group heal idea

So if a priest can heal 1 person for 300, it would be split between the group depending on party size

6 - 50hp a piece
5 - 60hp a piece
4 - 75hp a piece
3 - 100hp a piece
2 - 150hp a piece

The priest could just cast the group heal on himself and it would heal everyone. c group heal (priest name)

Great idea.

[roxxgui]

i agree with Metzger that healing in a group gives very little EXP, but saying that smite needs an MP increase is just not true. With the recent cure nerf i hit risens and other undeads for 45 as a lvl 22, when i heal with aid that costs 20 mana , they fizzle 50% of the time and i spend like 20 pots im a few minutes. So since healing in group is not worth exp wise and even mana cost wise cause of the 20 mana aid (other heals are even less efficient exp wise) and the fizzle rate, nerfing the solo leveling with needing a battery of mana pots to stay out a few minutes is just ridiculous. And as was said in here earlier, in pvp without pots, making smite cost 15 mana and aid 20 is just an auto loss.

[Cerebrus]

I like the group heal idea

So if a priest can heal 1 person for 300, it would be split between the group depending on party size

6 - 50hp a piece
5 - 60hp a piece
4 - 75hp a piece
3 - 100hp a piece
2 - 150hp a piece

The priest could just cast the group heal on himself and it would heal everyone. c group heal (priest name)

Great idea.

Gave this some more thought on the way home, if this spell was implemented, I dont think it should be castable outside of a party. If the priest tried to cast it by himself he/she would get a message saying ==>You must be in a party to use this spell. Otherwise it would turn into a strong solo heal.

[NiteHawk]

i agree with Metzger that healing in a group gives very little EXP, but saying that smite needs an MP increase is just not true. With the recent cure nerf i hit risens and other undeads for 45 as a lvl 22, when i heal with aid that costs 20 mana , they fizzle 50% of the time and i spend like 20 pots im a few minutes. So since healing in group is not worth exp wise and even mana cost wise cause of the 20 mana aid (other heals are even less efficient exp wise) and the fizzle rate, nerfing the solo leveling with needing a battery of mana pots to stay out a few minutes is just ridiculous. And as was said in here earlier, in pvp without pots, making smite cost 15 mana and aid 20 is just an auto loss.

AID doesn't have a 50% fizzle rate generally.
For AID:
If you are level 18 with 20 int, the fizzle rate IS 47%.
If you are level 18 with 22 int, the fizzle rate is 31%.
If you are level 20 with 20int, the fizzle rate is 30%.
If you are level 20 with 22int, the fizzle rate is 14%.
If you are level 22 with 20int, the fizzle rate is 13%. At level 23 it hits the final minimum of 5%.
If you are level 22 with 22int, the fizzle rate is maxed out at 5% already.

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With any spell, don't expect it to be useful for a couple of levels.It normally takes a good 4 levels to become useful.

Smite at level 21 with a cleric and 20 int you'll almost already do max fizzle rate. I actually just lowered the level requirement to 20 though now.
Smite Level 20 and 20 int, the fizzle rate is 9%, 21 is 6%, 22 is maxed at 5%. Generally since you will have alot of int they will fizzle this alot less.


Paladins have a different rate then the above though but start off with it sooner:
Smite level 19 at 16 int, fizzle rate is 10%
Smite level 19 at 12 int, fizzle rate is 38%.

Smite level 22 at 16 int, fizzle rate is 5%. (maxed out at level 20)
Smite level 22 at 12 int, fizzle rate is 22%.

For paladins, its good to have at least 14 int for smite to work in the low level 20's.
Smite level 21 at 14 int, fizzle rate is 14%. Level 22 is 8%, Level 23 is max at 5%.

If paladins have 20 int then you will pretty much be maxed when you get it at level 19.



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I disagree with healing. Cure was doing 130 on some instances, heal was doing 180. There is no way a party of 6 will kill a guardian/priest combo though. In rok it was about the levels as it is now (post changes), except the difference was in ROK that you could use 3 people at once so the parties would be far larger.

Healing is an addition to your pot usage when in heavy combat and should not be a complete replacement. Again, you are all missing 20-40 damage on physical based classes and this will play out in a party of 6 to be a good deal damage more. I would think 275 is also the higher spectrum when using 21 int though, rather then average.

Through calculations, 21 int at level 25 average is 243. Just to state.


What is everyones take on the smite MP changes anyways? if it was to be changed, it defo won't be 15MP. That's far too high. I would probably put it between 5-10MP.

The mass heal thing is an OK idea but it kind of ruins bards song healing, which would be a shame probably. I'm not sure on this yet though.

[roxxgui]

Well, if that is the fizzle rate on aid ( i am not doubting) , i am just completely unlucky. I was partying with Monsterbasher and i must have casted like 30 aids in total, i fizzled like 8-10 of them at least. But i can be unlucky, thats not a problem. On smite it fizzles way less , maybe my character has the mentality of a offensive cleric!
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I have a bard and indeed the aoe healing would gimp them a bit, i dont know how much the song will heal at 25, im only at 17 and it heals like 12 per tick, wich is pretty low. If the bard healing gets to 25-40 at 25 it is still better than cleric cause it doesnt consume stamina and the mana cost is way lower to sustain. Maybe the cleric aoe heal kinda gimps bard indeed, cant say for sure cause i dont know for how much the healing song will heal at 25.

PS: i didnt know level decreased fizzle rate, thats good to know ^^.

[Folder]

I think smite at 10 was good, as was said smite at 5 = making gold while leveling. 15 is probably too expensive.

[NiteHawk]

Well, if that is the fizzle rate on aid ( i am not doubting) , i am just completely unlucky. I was partying with Monsterbasher and i must have casted like 30 aids in total, i fizzled like 8-10 of them at least. But i can be unlucky, thats not a problem. On smite it fizzles way less , maybe my character has the mentality of a offensive cleric!
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I have a bard and indeed the aoe healing would gimp them a bit, i dont know how much the song will heal at 25, im only at 17 and it heals like 12 per tick, wich is pretty low. If the bard healing gets to 25-40 at 25 it is still better than cleric cause it doesnt consume stamina and the mana cost is way lower to sustain. Maybe the cleric aoe heal kinda gimps bard indeed, cant say for sure cause i dont know for how much the healing song will heal at 25.

PS: i didnt know level decreased fizzle rate, thats good to know ^^.

With a lvl 25 oad blue/purple instrument it should be 30-35 hp per tick yeah.
What aboot 6mp for pally and 8mo for cleric then