Ugliness and obesity

[Terron]

hollywood is all bards rangers and 13 chr half orc builds....sad

anyway, i think the char stat is underutilized, i like the bonus hp/mp thing but what about having charisma add 1/4 -1/2 as much MR as wisdom(this would only count charisma over 10 so no bonus at all for 10 chr)

also why isn't heal power charisma based, it makes more sense to seperate a clerics heal power vs their damage spells power. a "harming" cleric would not heal for as much as a healer. even the gods wouldn't want a cleric hurting people and even if they did that deity wouldn't be focusing on heal power...

[Man]

hollywood is all bards rangers and 13 chr half orc builds....sad

anyway, i think the char stat is underutilized, i like the bonus hp/mp thing but what about having charisma add 1/4 -1/2 as much MR as wisdom(this would only count charisma over 10 so no bonus at all for 10 chr)

also why isn't heal power charisma based, it makes more sense to seperate a clerics heal power vs their damage spells power. a "harming" cleric would not heal for as much as a healer. even the gods wouldn't want a cleric hurting people and even if they did that deity wouldn't be focusing on heal power...

Clerics don't really 'heal' to level. Not entirely true, they heal undead for a very short period of time (I did it for 2 levels). At level 1 clerics get a damage spell which doesn't heal anything, the damage goes up slightly over time and is efficiently costed (3 mana). The first healing spell on the other hand you get a couple levels later and they only deal damage at 50% or so to monsters at the cost of 5 mana, not only that but the damage spell does more damage. This makes the damage spell better than the 1st heal at all points. You at some point get the spell Heal which costs 10 mana, which I found did slightly less damage than the damage spell, however on the higher graveyard monsters fizzled more often than heal, so I went with that. Then came Aid, the first and only real viable point to heal monsters, as it was a spell that finally dealt more damage than Ray (the damage spell) at the cost of 20 mana. 2 levels later you get smite which deals about the same damage to undead as Aid but at 8 damage (though its damage is greatly reduced against regular monsters making ray better).

For reference
Damage spell lvl 1: You cast ray at a roadside bandit for 87 points of damage!
Heal spell cure lvl 4: You healed a risen for 43 points of damage!
Heal spell Heal lvl ?: You healed a risen for 62 points of damage!
Heal Spell Aid lvl 18: You healed a risen for 135 points of damage!
Damage spell lvl 20: You call down a storm of holy ice on a risen for 158 points of damage!


All in all, in this game, the gods want you to to kill snakes and boars

[Man]

I would have to agree though, charisma seems like a stat thats missing. This whole game is kind of all in though with the way you make your character. Most races in the game can't have 5 perfect stats (I believe Half-Orcs are the only race that can) which puts you at an odd spot during class creation as you're always going to be missing a stat. Most classes normally need 4/5 stats too. I.E. pretty much every single character is going to have max Agility and max Endurance, that pretty much now gives us only 2 stats to work on depending on the class.

With fighting classes, one can argue you only need str and everything else can be debated, however bards need charisma for their spell power, thieves need intelligence to not get caught stealing or to be seen while hiding... paladins use charisma for their taunt and have spells. It's all a bit subjective though on the hitting class I think though.

The problem is with the spell casters, which use both intelligence (fizzle rate?) and wisdom (spell power). This leaves spell casters 0 available free stats for customization, they'll pretty much always be max END, AGI, INT, WIS as I understand it. And spell caster's don't have the same type of glass cannon races that attackers get.

It would be nice though to see charisma be more important in the game... i.e. rather than bards using strength maybe they could have just used Charisma for their attacking as well.

[Terron]

my first character was a paladin then a cleric and leveling by far was easier with healing undead even with the seemingly half damage, heal spells just don't unaffected like the damage spells and melee and cure was 30% faster in leveling than heal was. because the 10 mana ate up my mana so fast i spent far more time regenerating with waterskins than training. but i understand that i couldnt afford mana orbs and stuff at that time which would likely give heal a much nicer edge.


besides chr affecting heal power would affect PvP the most but also since its a "sole" governing skill the charisma based damage can be altered so that a healer can do more damage through undeads MR , which im sure at the time int is governing all spell damage so raising heal power is clumped in the same category as raising other spells damage. in a PvP setting a harming cleric would be using its tutelage and time developing power into harm spells while a healer would practice and seek knowledge about healing, the two shouldn't be the same. but at the same time both types of clerics should still be useful ingame.

[Man]

my first character was a paladin then a cleric and leveling by far was easier with healing undead even with the seemingly half damage, heal spells just don't unaffected like the damage spells and melee and cure was 30% faster in leveling than heal was. because the 10 mana ate up my mana so fast i spent far more time regenerating with waterskins than training. but i understand that i couldnt afford mana orbs and stuff at that time which would likely give heal a much nicer edge.


besides chr affecting heal power would affect PvP the most but also since its a "sole" governing skill the charisma based damage can be altered so that a healer can do more damage through undeads MR , which im sure at the time int is governing all spell damage so raising heal power is clumped in the same category as raising other spells damage. in a PvP setting a harming cleric would be using its tutelage and time developing power into harm spells while a healer would practice and seek knowledge about healing, the two shouldn't be the same. but at the same time both types of clerics should still be useful ingame.

I would agree, in the beginning I spent more time using wines and such and sitting in temples than I did training. Eventually I decided to take the hit and but mana, which has made me somewhat poor, to fix that though, might want to post on the 'gold and you' topic.

I would have to agree though, I feel like Charisma should be utilized a bit more, it's an interesting idea. I feel like bards, since they have musical instruments and songs are their spells, would have been the perfect class to toss out the status quo and have charisma be their damage rather than str. I feel intelligence and Wisdom do go hand in hand with a cleric however.

[Terron]

which is precisely why a cleric is more like a warlock on here than a healer. im not suggesting changing ray or smites governing stat, which should be left as int. changing the heals only to chr. this would be optimal especially in 1v1s vs clerics. a cleric wouldn't be the pwn every monster pwn every event pwn at every boss crit , atleast you're dividing clerics into 3 categories the ones designed for pvp the ones designed for healing and the ones who dabble in both.

without changes like this the game is left with so few optimized characters that players don't use 80%(or more) of the content in the game. the game will have the same handful of builds beat to death over and over. might aswell have set stats and eliminate classes for races cuz they underperform.
the reason for this is to keep people playing over a long long time, cuz as it sits it takes like 10 days to 25 a character and after u do that 12? times you have every good build 1x or multiple divs of the great ones.

[Man]

which is precisely why a cleric is more like a warlock on here than a healer. im not suggesting changing ray or smites governing stat, which should be left as int. changing the heals only to chr. this would be optimal especially in 1v1s vs clerics. a cleric wouldn't be the pwn every monster pwn every event pwn at every boss crit , atleast you're dividing clerics into 3 categories the ones designed for pvp the ones designed for healing and the ones who dabble in both.

without changes like this the game is left with so few optimized characters that players don't use 80%(or more) of the content in the game. the game will have the same handful of builds beat to death over and over. might aswell have set stats and eliminate classes for races cuz they underperform.
the reason for this is to keep people playing over a long long time, cuz as it sits it takes like 10 days to 25 a character and after u do that 12? times you have every good build 1x or multiple divs of the great ones.

In all fairness, this game already has 3 clerics.

Paladins are more pvp I would say. They have heavy armor and they have an armor increasing spell, they can blind their opponent, they have heal, they do 16% extra damage with blunt weapons (so almost certainly more than swords).
Clerics are more for pve as they heal for close to 300 per stamina but have spells that don't stand up damage wise pvp. They wear lioght armor but have an armor increasing spell.
Bards dabble in both they have cure which heals for about 100, have a party heal song that constantly heals the party, they wear medium armor, have songs that boost stats to entire party like +3 str, they also attack for damage with most weapons in game dealing a nice amount of damage. I would say they do kind of what you're asking for.

[daedroth]

@Man Necromancers have a blind spell. I do not think paladins do.

[Man]

@Man Necromancers have a blind spell. I do not think paladins do.

You're right, for some reason I turned Sight in to Blind in my head...

[daedroth]

@Man Necromancers have a blind spell. I do not think paladins do.

You're right, for some reason I turned Sight in to Blind in my head...

Ah good! I was doubting myself for a little there